HomeFAQCalendarSearchMemberlistUsergroupsRegisterLog in
Check out the Drawing Contest going on in the Artwork Center! Deadline extended to April 20th! If you have submitted something, you may resubmit something else on the next deadline!
Share | 
 

 Struesdell's Tier Lists, 9/28

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
AuthorMessage
struesdell
Baron Von Vermin [LEGENDARY]


Join date: 2012-09-08
Posts: 128

PostSubject: Struesdell's Tier Lists, 9/28   Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:43 pm

struesdell's Tier Lists, 9/28

THIS IS MY OPINION, BASED ON MY ANALYSIS.
I don't have every card, and I can't compare them individually in any empyrical way so you're stuck with my guesses and math.
I'm not posting my graphs anymore because they lead to nitpicking. Now you just get broad categorization.
NOTE: This also has nothing to do with the applicability of these cards to the current event, and is balanced more around how useful they are in the single-unit events or quests. The team battles have a very different system and need their own tiers and considerations.

Like a Star @ heavenLike a Star @ heavenLike a Star @ heavenLike a Star @ heavenLike a Star @ heavenLike a Star @ heaven
    Tier 1: Octavia*, Nina, Monica
    Tier 2: Anastasia, Petra, Cecilia, Vlad, Aggripina, Abel
    Tier 3: Gloria, Succubus, Dorothea, Reinhard, Faith
    Tier 4: Cornelia, Alexander, Beatrix, Charles

    Octavia... oi. Okay so she's got better stats than Nina, same speed, same skill, same type.
    That said, she's twice as expensive to deploy. So I think RIGHT NOW, for this event and other similar one-character events, Octavia is better. For events like the Colosseum we just did, Nina is better. Take your pick they're both great.


Like a Star @ heavenLike a Star @ heavenLike a Star @ heavenLike a Star @ heavenLike a Star @ heaven
    Tier 1: Sheryl, Joachim, Heidimarie, Rose, Edgar, Meg
    Tier 2: Franziska, Victoria, Sophie, Bernhard, Erhard, Ignat, Stefan, Kiki, Seraphina, Camille
    Tier 3: Ploutia, Margarite, Lucrezia, Vivienne, Sarah, Julia
    Tier 4: Caecilia, Hildegarde, Thrain, Elena, Emma, Adolph, Gerhard, Fiona

    Meg is great. Long range poison means more ticks sooner.
    Kiki is good! Area attack with balanced stats make her pretty strong but squarely in tier 2.


Like a Star @ heavenLike a Star @ heavenLike a Star @ heavenLike a Star @ heaven
    Tier 1: Samantha, Yuriya, Scarlet, Chris, Georgine, Dhimitrios, Agnes, Livia, Blad, Anton
    Tier 2: Gloria, Gleb, Miriam, Django, Partenope, Walpurgis, Lieselotte, Felicia, Vilhelm, Mermaid, Paige, Achillea
    Tier 3: Zenobia, Maia, Angela, Estlin, Sergei, Mylene, Dorothy
    Tier 4: Robert, Charl, Fredrike, Alfonso, Christof, Biance, Avril, Alex, Helmut, Gunnel, Benedetta

    Samantha: Attack speed C Slow for 15 points? Yes please.
    Walpurgis and Paige are decent. I've bumped up Achillea also, because her attack speed synergizes well with the Knockback control ability.
    Benedetta is the new bottom of the list. Attack Up (Men) is good. But her stats are worse than Alex's. In both cases I think Attack Up (Men) gets a little devalued right now just because all the best cards from the Gladiator, Military, Witch and Black Dragon Reincarnation sets are women.


Like a Star @ heavenLike a Star @ heavenLike a Star @ heaven
    Tier 1: Hans, Prudence, Piper, Maxim, Harvine, Wolf, Fernando, Simon
    Tier 2: Heinz, Geronimo, Hector, Harpy, Carl, Sabrina, Phoebe, Elvira, Kinderik, Katherine, Marlow, Albert
    Tier 3: Auguste, Julian, Niel, Leevi, Matvei, Gustav
    Tier 4: Evert, Julietta, Johann, Percival, Theresa

    Four new three stars, all pretty reasonable. Prudence and Piper are great at this level, while Sabrina and Pheobe land squarely in Tier 2.


Like a Star @ heavenLike a Star @ heaven
    Tier 1: Kirill, Alicia, Jane, Pernilla, Iwan, Willie
    Tier 2: Adelaide, Damien, Elmer, Anna, Kyra, Bjorn
    Tier 3: Orlando, Yakov, Enrique, Igor, Dominic, Solveig
    Tier 4: Veronica, Claudio

    Nobody caaarrreessss


Like a Star @ heaven
    Tier 1: William
    Tier 2: Nils, Kevin, Gordon, Ada, Emily
    Tier 3: Ian, Miranda, Markku, Clair, Badouin, Dain
    Tier 4: Dennis, Jonathan, Carol, Natalie

    Whyyyyyyyyyy


Last edited by struesdell on Sat Sep 29, 2012 9:05 am; edited 5 times in total (Reason for editing : Updated the list with new cards.)
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Strenhelden
Terror of the End [Rare]


Join date: 2012-09-02
Posts: 163

PostSubject: Re: Struesdell's Tier Lists, 9/28   Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:47 pm

I love your theory posts Strue Smile

Keep up the good work for all of us!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
struesdell
Baron Von Vermin [LEGENDARY]


Join date: 2012-09-08
Posts: 128

PostSubject: Re: Struesdell's Tier Lists, 9/28   Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:02 pm

Strenhelden wrote:
I love your theory posts Strue Smile

Keep up the good work for all of us!

I like that every time I post one of these, it's gets harder and harder for me to trade my Thrain.

"But struesdell, you clearly show that it's not a great card in your thread."
"I know! That's why I want to trade it away!"

Also fun:
When I started, everyone told me Hildegard was awesome. She's always in high demand. I think it's the graphic.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Pugilist
☆


Join date: 2012-09-05
Posts: 82

PostSubject: Re: Struesdell's Tier Lists, 9/28   Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:26 pm

Could someone enlighten me as to why Scarlet is such a highly sought after card, (besides art work, I know, I get it, artwork of 1/2 naked women boosts a card's value drastically, blah blah blah). She has a great sea attack, but is slow and lacking in the other areas.
What am I missing?


I have kicked and punched Scarlet Johansson no small # of times, how do you think she got the Black Widow role?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
struesdell
Baron Von Vermin [LEGENDARY]


Join date: 2012-09-08
Posts: 128

PostSubject: Re: Struesdell's Tier Lists, 9/28   Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:40 pm

Pugilist wrote:
Could someone enlighten me as to why Scarlet is such a highly sought after card? [sic]

Ooh, fun!
I'm going to build a new tool for myself to break down the value I'm assigning to a card by part, so that I can show it all numerically. Neat! Cool idea!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
clocksprocket
Commando Chicklet [EPIC]


Join date: 2012-08-17
Posts: 1395

PostSubject: Re: Struesdell's Tier Lists, 9/28   Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:45 pm

I don't know myself. As I was making my way up quests/leveling up I never used the one or two Scarlet allies I occasionally had. Yes, her sea is really strong, but her land/air, which is what I mostly wanted -- not so much.

I suppose for events with water enemies or where highest attack stat is taken she's more useful.

_________________
KiK: clocksprocket | Play DOT! Referral: 7Px4

forum rules | FAQ (ask questions) | find allies | unit list | want a green name?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
struesdell
Baron Von Vermin [LEGENDARY]


Join date: 2012-09-08
Posts: 128

PostSubject: Re: Struesdell's Tier Lists, 9/28   Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:14 pm

Yeah, it's also her 200 Range.



200 range is awesome. It means almost 55% more time-on-target by itself on a straight-line route, which means she starts shooting sooner and stops shooting later. Her Land and Air attacks aren't great it's true, and there really aren't enough hard sea monsters to make sea damage a big deal, but overall she's a great support piece and she can put the hurt on stuff your other units are slowing/knocking back pretty effectively.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Pugilist
☆


Join date: 2012-09-05
Posts: 82

PostSubject: Re: Struesdell's Tier Lists, 9/28   Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:45 pm

Ok, so that I'm sure my brain is thinking the same thing I am...
200 range is great, but since she's a D speed, don't these somewhat cancel each other out?
She's a great support unit...without knockback/slow she's just bleh?


I once punched ____________________.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
struesdell
Baron Von Vermin [LEGENDARY]


Join date: 2012-09-08
Posts: 128

PostSubject: Re: Struesdell's Tier Lists, 9/28   Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:53 pm

Pugilist wrote:
Ok, so that I'm sure my brain is thinking the same thing I am...
200 range is great, but since she's a D speed, don't these somewhat cancel each other out?
She's a great support unit...without knockback/slow she's just bleh?


I once punched ____________________.

Don't punch ___________! That's where I put my stuff!

D speed is like a 20% malus vs the 200 Range 55% bonus, so overall it's a net positive.
Yeah, she's not a champion outside of specific quests where you need the sea damage (Wait, are there any? I need to up my +sea skill and I haven't found a quest that's good for sea critters).

For largest damage output I think I tend to prefer Dhimitrios or Chris. Each have broader stat lines and so their Air and Ground damage are more respectable. Chris has bigger numbers, Dhimitrios has faster attack speed but low range.

Yuriya though. Mmm. High power numbers overall, poison, fast attack... awesome.

If I were to diminish the value of sea damage overall, I think that might change the value of a lot of things. Right now, I'm giving land a 10% bonus and sea a 10% malus, so I'm already KINDA incorporating that. It's just not a big swing.

[edit:] as a follow on, I experimented with dropping the value of all sea damage for all units by 25% across the board. Scarlet still comes in above Chris somehow. I double-checked the math, and it's not broken.

I'm considering changing my formula. Right now it compounds all the modifiers multiplicatively, which means that the more bonuses you have the more each one matters. I might want to switch them to be additive instead which would even some of these things out.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Valhades
☆☆


Join date: 2012-09-09
Posts: 155

PostSubject: Re: Struesdell's Tier Lists, 9/28   Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:57 pm

I would not consider Hildegarde and Alexander to be bottom tier. They are both extremely useful due to their 200 range which allows you to fit more damage into your CC (crowd control, KB/slow) zone.

For example, ideal unit placement is a variant of:

Castle Start
S| |D S - Slow
K| |D K - Knockback
D| |S D - Heavy Damage (Poison, AOE, No Ability)
K| |D/K <- (Depends on how many D are AOE)
_________
Castle Finish (Leak)
... Obviously the left and right sides can be interchanged freely.


The top 4 units (Slow, Knockback, DD x2) should achieve stunlock on between 2-4 mobs dependent on their speed and hopefully kill them before they advance further. The four below will catch leaks and act the same as the top 4 rows, in general focusing on trying to stunlock a group of mobs into a small area for AOE units to demolish. AOE units have fairly unimpressive single target DPS stats, though when you consider they'll be hitting 3-4 units at a time, the damage begins to look quite exceptional.

The main unavoidable problem is that the bottom four do not contribute at all unless the top four fail. The reason being: You can only fit so many units into a stunlock zone, units behind are only used once the top ones fail. Keep in mind, one hero/unit occupies 50 units of space. That means the extra 50 range (over 150) of a 200 range unit has will allow them to attack over the 2nd row unit, making the 3rd row actually useful before the top four fails.


Aside from that, I believe your calculations do not stress land-target DPS nearly enough. During castle siege (and the other player has a ridiculous defense), Vlad is infinitely more useful his land-target DPS trump's Nina's by quite a margin. Range is not a significant factor unless it's 200 because your stunlock cell (4 heroes) will always keep things stunlocked at max range (130,150,175 - no difference). When units pass the max range, it means your current stunlock group cannot handle the volume of enemies coming. If you use a lower DPS (66k/C) unit like Nina, you will often not be able to out-kill the spawns and you will be overwhelmed.

That's not to say Nina is a bad card. She is the most cost efficient unit in the game at the moment meaning that using her in events where cost matters gives you a lot more flexibility. However, for the TD portion, you're better off using Vlad. When Agent Dana comes out, she is basically as Monica is to Petra -- better in every way and a better choice for Leader-only events. I would not consider Nina top tier in anything except a cost-implemented event because her low land attack stat severely limits her usefulness. If we see more aerial enemies in the future, that may change -- However as it is now, virtually every enemy (including bosses) are ground units and take damage from the ground stat.

</long explanation>
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Curasa
☆☆


Join date: 2012-09-15
Posts: 209

PostSubject: Re: Struesdell's Tier Lists, 9/28   Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:44 pm

Charl=Charlotte?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
dastand
Gingerbreadian [SPECIAL]


Join date: 2012-09-15
Posts: 201

PostSubject: Re: Struesdell's Tier Lists, 9/28   Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:44 pm

I really like your tier design, bravo my friend bravo
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.something.com
jdelmundo
☆


Join date: 2012-08-24
Posts: 73

PostSubject: Re: Struesdell's Tier Lists, 9/28   Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:50 pm

Tier 1: Nina, Vlad
Nina - Highest range second only to Alexander. Balanced damage, C speed and ranged projectile is fastest in the game. Unmatched utility. 15 unit cost.
Vlad - Lots of Vlads sure, but in all rank events, the raw damage of Vlad is hard to beat.

Tier 2: Annastasia, Cecelia, Aggrapina
Annastasia - Highest ranged unit damage, and projectile speed. Anna is a rapist in every way. Anna defeats Monica's damage, projectile speed and outdamages Monica in land and air. Who really cares about sea? Oh and she's only 20 unit cost. Anna is slightly below tier 1. There's a reason why Anna is still viable in JP decks even with all of the cards currently out.
Cecilia - Value is high right now because there is no other poison melee. Good damage, and putting a poison skill as your leader will benefit your +1 skill ability. Poison damage will reach over 40k per tick easily. Cecilia will have one of the highest damage output if her poisons stick.
Aggrapina - Value is high because it's a rank prize. Roughly same tier as Cece with a little less air and a lot more land and sea, if you need that. For most events, Aggra will beat Cece in melee and poison damage except when she needs to hit something above her head.

Tier 3: Monica, Reinhard
Monica - Monica is high damage across the board. However its highest at (lol) sea damage. Her 30 unit cost and slow magic projectile speed makes her value inflated. Anyone who's asking for 2-3 6* for her is delirious. 30 unit cost is a bummer considering she's only a slight upgrade from Petra. But more is better for the most part...
Reinhard - Sure he has wings on his ears and that's queer. B speed, good utility and very high damage output on events like DT makes Reinhard always a solid choice. B speed makes his damage competitive and the utility of slowing units at B speed is of great value.

Tier 4: Abel, Dorothea, Succubus (aka doro 2.0)
Abel - Extra points for looking pretty cool. The KB unit of choice until Nina rained on his parade. Solid damage across the board, fast projectile speed and KB offers good utility.
Dorothea - Doro and a slow or KB unit in the front will just do ridiculous damage. Solid damage across the board and each poison tick does 35k damage. This is without making her your lead giving her the level 7 poison skill.
Succubus - Roughly equivalent to Doro, though I like the way doro's card looks more.

Tier 5: Gloria, Petra
Gloria - Solid land damage.... That's about it and she's rare. I won this rank prize, and really tried to get the most out of her, but she's underwhelming. Magic projectile speed is slow. You will hate life when you're a sliver from beating a DT boss and the projectile is still mid-flight when the boss delivers the killing blow. 20 cost helps balance her underwhelming stats. Fun to look at -- that's always a plus.
Petra - Good damage, and 20 cost -- though magic projectile speed is slow. Good utility with slow. Most 6* are high unit cost. Petra is a good balance of damage, utility and low unit cost which can be of use in anyone's deck. For 20 cost I'd rather have Anna though unless the monster is range resistant.

Tier everyone else. Yeah everyone else is just a slight upgrade to 5*.


Back to top Go down
View user profile
struesdell
Baron Von Vermin [LEGENDARY]


Join date: 2012-09-08
Posts: 128

PostSubject: Re: Struesdell's Tier Lists, 9/28   Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:09 pm

Projectile speed is a metric I would LOVE to be able to incorporate into my chart.
I'm going to experiment with adjusting the chart to further prioritize a unit's "highest" single attack so that I'm not under-valuing Vlad so much.

Petra, Anastasia and Monica seem really similar in terms of being Speed D, 150 range, slow. Total power looks really close together as well. But if I want to penalize Monica and Petra for being sea-focused and further penalize based on projectile speed, that might shift my numbers around to look more like jdelmundo's list.

That said, while I appreciate people discussing the list I've provided coming in here and just stomping my list with yours is kinda rough. I'd rather get feedback on my list and make adjustments than have readers bouncing around the thread trying to decide who they trust most.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
struesdell
Baron Von Vermin [LEGENDARY]


Join date: 2012-09-08
Posts: 128

PostSubject: Re: Struesdell's Tier Lists, 9/28   Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:49 pm

So here's how I'm going to read your post, because I'm sure you weren't trying to be rude.

Quote :

Nina - I totally agree with you on Nina's placement. Her flexibility as a unit and her high speed and low cost make her great.
Vlad - You should try to bump up Vlad, because his ground attack is unmatched and that matters more than his weakness in the other attack types. He's super popular for events because he hits so hard.

Annastasia - You've got her in the right spot, I totally agree.
Cecilia - Value is high right now because there is no other poison melee. Good damage, and putting a poison skill as your leader will benefit your +1 skill ability. I'd consider moving her up because I think you're over-valuing Petra.
Aggrapina - Value is high because it's a rank prize. Roughly same tier as Cece with a little less air and a lot more land and sea, if you need that. For most events, Aggra will beat Cece in melee and poison damage except when she needs to hit something above her head.

Monica - I think you over-value Monica. Monica is high damage across the board. However its highest at (lol) sea damage. Her 30 unit cost and slow magic projectile speed makes her value inflated. Anyone who's asking for 2-3 6* for her is delirious. 30 unit cost is a bummer considering she's only a slight upgrade from Petra. But more is better for the most part...
Reinhard - I think you are under-valuing Reinhard. Sure he has wings on his ears and that's queer. B speed, good utility and very high damage output on events like DT makes Reinhard always a solid choice. B speed makes his damage competitive and the utility of slowing units at B speed is of great value.

Abel - I think Abel is good, but not as good as Reinhard. Extra points for looking pretty cool. The KB unit of choice until Nina rained on his parade. Solid damage across the board, fast projectile speed and KB offers good utility.
Dorothea - Doro and a slow or KB unit in the front will just do ridiculous damage. Solid damage across the board and each poison tick does 35k damage. This is without making her your lead giving her the level 7 poison skill.
Succubus - Roughly equivalent to Doro, though I like the way doro's card looks more.

Gloria - You have Gloria all wrong. She has Solid land damage.... That's about it and she's rare. I won this rank prize, and really tried to get the most out of her, but she's underwhelming. Magic projectile speed is slow. You will hate life when you're a sliver from beating a DT boss and the projectile is still mid-flight when the boss delivers the killing blow. 20 cost helps balance her underwhelming stats. Fun to look at -- that's always a plus.
Petra - Good damage, and 20 cost -- though magic projectile speed is slow. I think this places her lower on the list than you have her. Good utility with slow. Most 6* are high unit cost. Petra is a good balance of damage, utility and low unit cost which can be of use in anyone's deck. For 20 cost I'd rather have Anna though unless the monster is range resistant.

Tier everyone else. Yeah everyone else is just a slight upgrade to 5*.

The internet makes jerks of us all. Smile
Back to top Go down
View user profile
 

Struesdell's Tier Lists, 9/28

View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 5Go to page : 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

 Similar topics

-
» Diggersby [X / Y] [Tier Undecided]
» Struesdell's Tier Lists [10/4/12]
» Struesdell's Tier Lists [11/3/12]
» New Tier Lists Released!
» CreativeCC's Hot and Cuteness Tier Lists

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
 :: Fantasica :: Game Discussion-